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Archive-name: monty-python Posting-Frequency: alt.fan.monty-python / weekly *.answers / monthly Beginner's Guide to the Monty Python Newsgroup This is the completely (un)official FAQ for the alt.fan.monty-python newsgroup, also called a.f.m-p. Version 1.21 Last modified Feb. 20, 1994 ____ +--------------------------+ / __ \ | | ( (__) ) | | _\____/___ | THIS | / | | /\ | | /_________/ \ | SPACE | / _ _ \ \ | | / / | // \ \ | UND / //|| // \ \ | | / || || __ \ \ | CONSTRUCTION | / || ||/__\ \ \ | | / || ||/ \\ \ \ | | / _||_ \\__// \ \ | | / ---- ---- __\ \ | | / _____ _ _ _ // \ \ | | / |__ __| / \ | \ | | \\ \ \ | | / | | | O || \| | \\ \ \ +--------------------------+ / |_| \_/ |_|\__| _// \ / /__________________________________\/ This FAQ is written and maintained by Sir DarkWolf. Please direct any questions/comments/additions to me at the address below. (If you don't agree with something, tell me how to fix it.) You can get the latest version of this FAQ by (1) sending an email request to: Sir DarkWolf (drkwlf@wam.umd.edu) OR Bonni Hall (bonni@prairienet.org). (2) ftp'ing to rtfm.mit.edu pub/usenet/alt.answers/monty-python It's also crossposted monthly to alt.answers and news.answers Many thanks go to the following people who have helped with ideas/revisions: Bonni Hall: Net Guidelines and general editing Jester: The Tale of the Origins of the Infamous AKA Sir David: The Liberty Bell March (MP theme song) question & answer Big Furry Hamster: Information on FTPmail (part of ftp.help file) Dave Morning: Authoritative cause of death for Graham Chapman ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- New in Version X.X---------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Version 1.21 Added lovely ASCII artwork to front page. Version 1.2 Added half of pretty little picture. Included information on the demise of Graham Chapman (8e) due to its frequency of occurrence on the group. (hope it's not too morbid a topic for the FAQ) Updated section 2 so that it's clearer in conveying nettiquette Version 1.12 Re-wrote and expanded section 3. Version 1.11 Updated the aka definition in section 7. Version 1.1 The section on FTP general help (9) was removed to its own separate file. Version 1.0 There was nothing new here, this was the original, you twit. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Index----------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. What is a FAQ and what does it stand for? (Or, FAQ you!) 2. Where can I get <insert name here> script/song/soundfile/picture? 3. Monty Python Informational Files (FTP List, Pythonography, MP.faq, Fan Clubs...) 4. Why aren't the movie scripts posted to the newsgroup, and what is the "correct" procedure for distributing files to people? 5. Can you give me some 'netiquette' guidelines for newbies/posting? 6. What is all this non-Python related silliness on the newsgroup? 7. What does aka stand for and why does everybody always use one? 8a. Where do I find answers to specific Monty Python related questions? 8b. What does the witch say when she is found to weigh the same as a duck? 8c. What do the knights who no longer say NI call themselves now? 8d. What is the theme music for the Flying Circus, and who wrote it? 8e. The Ex - Graham Chapman. 9. What is FTP and how do I use it? 10. What about Newsgroup/Internet Terminology/Jargon? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---1. What's a FAQ-------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Definition: The letters FAQ stand for Frequently Asked Questions. Around a.f.m-p though, it should really be FQA for Frequently Questioned Answers ;) ------------ Explanation: FAQs are used by the majority of Usenet newsgroups to cut down on the number of repeatedly redundant, and often asked, questions (which are best handled by the Department of Redundancy Department, really). It makes sense that most new people joining a newsgroup will have very similar questions about that group. Rather than have the older members of the group answering the same exact questions several times a week every time someone new decides to join, a list of the most common questions and their answers is kept online. The theory behind it is that (*hopefully*) every newcomer to the newsgroup will first check out the FAQ before posting anything. That way they will learn the answers to frequent questions, as well as some general policies about posting that will keep them from making fools of themselves and annoying the older members. Do not feel badly if you read the FAQ and still have questions regarding what the heck is going on. Everybody who is in this newsgroup was new at one time or another. If you have a question not covered by the FAQ you can email me or one of the others listed in the FAQ. You're sure to get an answer, and if your question is really good, it might even wind up in the next version of the FAQ! You can also post the question to the newsgroup, where I'm sure somebody will have an answer for you. But be warned.... If you post a question that is asked 25,645.73 times a day, you will be flamed by some of the older members, or at least have barrels full of Spam thrown at you.... --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---2. Locating Python Files----------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- The question probably heard most often on a.f.m-p is "where can I find such-and-such a file". Usually they are referring to either one of the movie scripts, a flying circus episode script, or words to a song. There are a couple ways you can obtain these files without prompting someone to post them to the newsgroup in general. After all, if you do ask it be posted, you (1) may be sending a request to thousands of people who don't have the files, and don't care that you want them (2) may end up being responsible for flooding the newsgroup with replies by almost everyone on the group, and who knows what 76,000 copies of The Holy Grail would do to a poor unsuspecting innocent newsreader anyway (it would be just plain disgusting). One more reliable way to get a specific text file is to email someone from the group and ask them if they have it and would mind sharing. Many people from the group have their own Python library of words (either on-line, at home, or both). I'm sure that emailing a request to someone from the group, or posting a brief article asking that a sketch/script be *E-MAILED* to you, will lead to results. If all else fails, two address that are sure to get you some kind of response are DarkWolf's and Bonni's (DarkWolf keeps an online library, Bonni keeps the Monty Python FTP List). Both of us are pretty good at helping out with this sort of thing. If you are looking for something particularly obscure, or you just plain can't find a copy of what you're looking for, or you're too intimidated to ask a live person, you can always get these files from an FTP site yourself. (See section #9 for an explanation on using FTP) Though, with an ftp script, accuracy is not guaranteed. You are at the mercy of whoever translated the text to a computer file. Most of the time you haven't got a clue as to what idiot typed in the version you're looking at, so be warned. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---3. Monty Python Information--------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- There are many wonderful files written about Monty Python by past/current living/dead followers of this newsgroup and alt.british.comedy. They provide a wealth of information on just about all aspects of what Monty Python was, and what they did. Everything from how the group got started, to the members' latest individual film projects, to where to find scripts of these films and shows on the internet. The main files that I know about are listed below with a brief description, and who is responsible for the mess. If you know of, or have written, any others not listed here, please let the general Pythonic public know about them so that we can all benefit from your ... ah ... erm ... wisdom? And now, The MP informational archives... Monty.Python.FAQ written by Simon Rooney and Brian Johnson A document ripe full of questions and answers about the fab sextet themselves. From The Meaning of Lines to The Life of John to The Search for The Holy Albumn. This covers short bio's on where the members came from, show dates for the series, and all sorts of other silly nonsense. Monty.Python.FTP written by Brian "He's a very naughty Boy" Johnson A HUGE compilation of known python-material carrying ftp sites throughout the world. If there is a Monty Python file located on the internet anywhere, this file will tell you where to find it. Absolutely indespensible for those seeking to expand their on-line loony library. Pythonography written by Andreas Trapp A study of all the works that Python put out in their career, as well as going on to cover things that the pythonites did after their 3.5 seasons together. From Flying Circus to Holy Grail to writting and directing on their own, if a Python member had something to do with it, this file has something to say about it. Flying.Circus.Shows written by Sir DarkWolf A complete listing of everything the Python's did within the Flying Circus Series. Covering all four seasons, this file lists Show titles, recording dates, TV transmission dates, as well as a complete listing of sketches within each of the 45 shows. If you want to know when a sketch was first performed by Python, or the dates they were recorded on, look nay further. Monty Python Bibliography written by Hans tenCate The most complete listing of Python published material anywhere. Includes a very thorough index of audio/video/written thingies. This list even surpasses those in published Python reference books. You can get the latest version of this by emailing a request to htencate@futron.com Fan.Clubs written by Alice Wilson If you have ever gotten the urge to loony it up with fellow pythonites in your area but didn't know how to find them, this is the place to check for a listing of Monty Python Fan Clubs. It even gives you names and address of people to contact for information for each of the clubs. "Great" you say. But, how do I actually get my grubby little paws on this knowledge? Well, there are several ways of doing it... You can "ftp" for the stuff from "cathouse.org" (If you don't know how to ftp, ask), or you can email a request for one of the files above (or a request for all of them) to me (drkwlf@wam.umd.edu), as I keep them all online. Bonni (bonni@prairienet.org) has the FTP List and sends it out regularly. If you can't handle either of those choices, post to the group (a.f.m-p). ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---4. Why can't I post long text files to a.f.m-p or other groups---------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- So, you want to post a HUGE file to alt.fan.monty-python, and that's just.... Well, it's not a very efficient use of the internet, is it? Don't feel badly, we were ALL new once, it's nothing to be ashamed of. However, here is some advice on internet etiquette (netiquette) which will, hopefully, show you the error in your thinking, wot? Now then, in regards to the posting of LONG scripts to the afm-p newsgroup... There are MANY more suitable ways of distributing large text and/or binary files over the internet than by posting them to newsgroups. Think for a minute what newsgroups do. They make copies of whatever you post and distribute those copies to every site across the world that carries that newsgroup. Note here that EVERY site gets its own INDIVIDUAL copy. So in essence you are not posting one article through the internet channels, you are really sending several THOUSAND copies all at the same time! For short articles this is no big deal, but for longer text articles (not to mention multi-part binary posts) such as scripts of movies this is an INCREDIBLE waste of internet resources (known often as bandwidth). Also note here that not all of the sites to which these thousands of scripts are being sent even have people that follow the afm-p newsgroup. So in actuality these copies are being completely wasted and are needlessly sent out. So, by sending these useless copies all over the world you are bogging down the internet channels which could be used for better, more constructive things. There are also many sites where the subscribers have to PAY for their internet access (it's not always free). Many of these pay sites also require that you pay a certain amount for newsgroup articles that you read in either connect time, or even in bytes of articles read. If I happened to be on a "pay for newsgroup" site and already had copies of the movie scripts, I'd be VERY angry that someone wasted MY money by sending these large files out. This one file, which I didn't even need to see, would cost me as much as 50 or so regular one page posts. ------------------- Other Alternatives: As I said originally, there are many better ways of distributing this type of information throughout the net. One example is ftp (probably where you got this stuff from in the first place). Most people have access to ftp sites and can download the files themselves. This way, there is only ONE copy of the file being transferred over internet channels for each person that really wants a copy. This completely eliminates all of the wasted copies. The second way to transfer this type of thing is via email. Again, only one copy per person actually wanting the script is being sent. If you still want to supply the a.f.m-p community with access to the Python files (there are several of us doing this already, and have been for some time) you can do one of several things. First is to patiently wait until someone comes on the net and requests a specific file. Then, you can either email him/her the file or point them to an ftp site. Both of which are still one to one (one file to one person). Another way to supply people with files is to make a short list of what you are willing to give out and post this "index". Then anybody wanting something from you can contact you individually. The whole point here is the one to one concept. One file being sent to one person is much more efficient. The internet is a HUGE and very chaotic universe. If there is not some sort of control and common sense shown by the users of its resources, we would all soon be drowned out by the volume of 'noise' transferring around. Just think what would happen if everybody with an internet account decided to post several thousand copies of a large script file each. The net would be clogged up for a long time before it could manage to send all that information. So please, either leave the distributing of scripts/binary files to those of us here who have been doing it for a while, or make an effort to keep the one to one ratio when sending things out. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---5. Usenet Posting Guidelines----------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ A set of "guidelines" as it were. Alright, read on. RULE NUMBER ONE: Please keep the long cascades to a minimum, and delete the stuff you're not using for your own witty reply. Some people have slower modems than others, and scanning through gobs of irrelevant stuff isn't that fun at 2400 baud.... Also, some people have to pay for their online time. RULE NUMBER TWO: Lots of people post here asking for actual Monty Python skits, songs, scripts, whatever. They may not post in as humorous or silly a way as the VERY silly people would like, but that is *no* reason to be rude. Be polite, be friendly, and be helpful, if you can. But don't blow them up because they aren't funny enough, or RUDELY tell them that they ought to go to such-and-such FTP site. We *are* a friendly, generally amusing, mostly intelligent bunch of folks. We really ought to act that way, especially to persons who so desperately need our wisdom and guidance. RULE NUMBER THREE: There is no rule number three! RULE NUMBER FOUR: When in doubt as to whether or not to actually *post* it, perhaps it might be better to mail it. That way, you can talk about others behind their backs (best place *to* talk about them, I say!) or make all sorts of rude sexual comments, and not offend anyone (except, perhaps, the person you are mailing....hmmmm....). Certainly, a fair amount of clever repartee is expected here (we are all such brilliant wits, after all), but *really* personal stuff might be best kept private.... Also, if what you intend to say applies to a only few gits on the group, email them instead of posting it, so the rest of us don't have to read through irrelavent garbage. RULE NUMBER FIVE: Flames are hurtful and unkind, and have *no* place in this newsgroup. There is a difference, too, between the silly, joshing- about sort of flames we all do and the really nasty stuff. Personal, direct insults are RIGHT OUT! The last Flame War was truly appalling. Let's not EVER repeat that. If someone is rude, IGNORE him/her. Do not send ANY mail to that person (unless it is polite), do not flame in return, do not lampoon or parody that person. In short: DO NOT FEED THE FLAMES. If we *all* go by this, those people who would be nasty will eventually either stop being nasty or they will go away. Either way, it's a LOT better than any more wars, yes? (Definition of 'flame' for newbies: Rude, cruel, nasty, or otherwise insulting posts/email, directed at the PERSON rather than at his/her opinions). RULE NUMBER SIX: Enjoy yourselves!! Monty Python's Flying Circus is/was a wonderful phenomenon, and every one of us knows that. We *should* have fun, but still be in control, and exercise a bit of moderation in certain areas. However, silliness and clever wit was the very substance of Python. Therefore, it *does* belong in this group. Even outsiders, who post here only once to request a particular song, should be able to read our many posts and get a chuckle out of it (or, if we are *really* good, a GUFFAW!). NOW, TO THOSE PEOPLE WHO POST HERE ON OCCASION (you have been mentioned several times here, after all): Please feel free to ask whatever you like about this group or Monty Python. Don't be ashamed or afraid. There are *many* of us here who are virtual fountains of knowledge.... And we don't bite... most of us don't, actually... well, perhaps a *few* of us do bite... but not that hard. Really, though, this group is comprised of lots of highly intelligent, very well-informed people, and just about ANY question you have (relating to MP, anyway) should find an answer from at least *one* person here... though there *may* be a bit of joshing about before you *get* the answer you want *chuckle*. And from us regular posters: WELCOME!!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---6. Silliness-------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ First off, lets face it, Monty Python was a bunch of VERY silly/wacky/loony people. To have a newsgroup for their fans and expect it to be even remotely serious is unthinkable. So why all this silly stuff which seems to have absolutely nothing to do with Monty Python? Well, think a bit about what a newsgroup environment is like. The newsgroups are really more discussion oriented than news oriented, they should really be referred to as discussion groups. They are set up so that many users can add opinions, talk together, and generally share information about a particular subject. Also understand that there are people on this one newsgroup who have been following it for literally YEARS. How many times do you think it takes of quoting the <insert.name.here> sketch, word for word, before it starts to get rather dull and boring. I realize that MP, by their very nature, are not dull and boring, so don't get defensive on me, but if all we did here was to quote lines from them back and forth to each other, we'd be endlessly saying the same stuff over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over.... (again, an activity best left to the Department of Redundancy Department, wot?) Also note that this comedy group is no longer doing any new material, which is what a lot of the alt.fan.* groups spend all their time discussing. We have sorta "bent" the rule in newsgroups on always following the stated subject of the group, to make a.f.m-p better suited to more interesting discussions. ----------------- The Tale of the Dreaded FLAME WAR! Once upon a time here, there was a pretty heated flame war between the two sides of alt.fan.* philosophies. I don't want to get into the history of this newsgroup much, because it's... well... it's history, but... There were two sides, as I said: the strictly serious discussion people versus the wacky humor people. The serious people said that the group's name was a.f.monty-python and that by definition of the group, the only thing which should be discussed here was Python. They felt that the general silliness which had no direct link to the material of Monty Python had absolutely no place in the newsgroup. The wacky humor people said that they were tired of ONLY talking about a group whose material had been discussed here time and time again. They wanted to talk about new stuff, to keep the group interesting. The problem is that the original wackiness got out of hand and turned into a free for all joke fest, where not many of the posts even had a Pythonesque tribute to them. The people who subscribed to the group could not find anything even remotely related to Python. What was decided upon was that there should be a compromise made. That the original, Python based humor would be allowed, but that it should be exactly that... PYTHON-BASED. If you come up with some witty, wacky, truly funny story or joke, but it has absolutely nothing to with Monty Python and isn't even derived from their ideas, then this is not the place for it, go to rec.humor. ----------------- Basically what we try to do here is to create our own humor in tribute to Monty Python. The posters attempt to build off of MP's ideas and invent original material in a Pythonesque vein. That is not to say that we never discuss Monty Python directly, we often do, it's just that we would get rather tired of ONLY discussing a group that no longer puts anything new out. As a newbie, you may want to just keep an eye out for what type of original parodies/humor are being posted for a while before you jump in and post your own ideas. Then again, you are also perfectly free to start right off with all kinds of zany looniness. Just be prepared for plenty of responses to it (good or bad, most of the time both). --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---7. AKA aka "Also Known As"--------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Definition: The letters AKA stand for Also Known As. It sorta means the same thing as an alias. We often use it in a way similar to a postscript, as a final witty comment, as it were. Yes it's silly, and it's true that it has nothing to do with what aka really means. But, you should come to expect the unexpected, ludicrous, looney, stupid, non-sensical, etc... when dealing with anything related to MP. It's a tradition that's been proudly carried on almost since the beginning of afm-p. Most people choose to use one, but it's not required (encouraged, certainly, but NOT a requirement). ---------------- Explanation: The aka's began in the deep autumnal evenings of 1991 when Jos the almighty first uttered the aka. Slowly, and mercilessly, Jester propagated the aka to death (100 consecutive posts in 1 hour) to the point of almost banishment, but by that time, most people on the newsgroup were aka-ing madly, and it continues to this day, a legacy of Jos's insane stupidity, and Jester's uncanny ability to propagate totally useless bullsh*t across the net. [cut to stock film of women's institute applauding] --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---8a. Monty Python Questions---------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is not really a FAQ list devoted to Monty Python specific questions, it's more a FAQ list for the fan newsgroup. The difference is that the Monty Python FAQ is for questions like, who are Monty Python, what movies have they made, who directed them, what does a certain quote mean, ect. The newsgroup FAQ is for questions about posting, and what goes on within the internet. To find the answers to Monty Python questions, you need to consult the file monty.python.faq, written by Simon Rooney and Brian Johnson. ---------------------- Now that I have said I will not answer Python questions, I will break my own rule and answer a question here. What did the witch say. And also, what's the theme music... oh, that's two. All right, TWO questions. Witch quote, theme music, and what do the Knights of Ni say when... Oh, bugger! I'll come in again.... Now that I have said I will not answer Python questions, I will break my own rule and answer some (I didn't expect the Spanish Inquistion!). The reason for this is these questions are asked so many times on the newsgroup that it's not even funny. These two questions are the best examples for a FAQ's existence that I have ever seen. Whenever we get a big group of newbies on the net at once, (i.e. beginning of college semesters), this one question is generally asked at least every day by somebody or other for weeks. (no joke!) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---8b. Witch Quote--------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Q1: What does the witch say in the Holy Grail when she is found to weigh the same as a duck, and therefore, found to be a witch? A: She says "It's a fair cop". Q2: What does "It's a fair cop" mean? A: The phrase is thieves' cant for "you've got me dead to rights" which means that there has been no entrapment and the person was fairly caught in the act. The line has also been used in a few other Flying Circus sketches like "Dead Bishop on the Landing / The Church Police" and "Whizzo Chocolates." --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---8c. Knights who no longer say NI--------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Q1: What do the knights who no longer say NI now call themselves? A: They are the knights who say "ecky ecky ecky ecky pi'kang zoop boing <mumble-mumble>". Q2: Why does everyone have a different version/spelling of the above quote? A: What was said on screen during the filming was completely different from what was written down on the screenplay. I guess it was a spontaneous ad-lib or something. What is quoted in the net file scripts of the movies is a phonetic approximation of what was said. Since it really is just nonsense, you can spell it any way you like. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---8d. Flying Circus Theme Music------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Q: What is the theme music for Monty Python's Flying Circus? A: The Liberty Bell March by John Philip Sousa. Q2: Which band made the recording used for the series? A2: The Coldstream Guards. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---8e. What's the truth behind all those rumors about Graham Chapman------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Q1: Was Graham Chapman homosexual? (I apologize if I didn't phrase this in the current politically correct terminology, what ever that may be.) A1: Yes. Q2: Was Chapman an alcoholic? A2: Definitely yes. At his peak he was reportedly consuming two quarts of gin a day. Q3: When did Graham Chapman die? A3: He died on October 4, 1989, just one day before Monty Python's 20th anniversary. As Kim Johnson said "Somehow I think Heaven has become a slightly sillier place." Q4: (and now the biggie) What did Chapman die of? A4: Graham Chapman died of cancer. The rumors of him contracting AIDS are completely false. It must come from that infamous (and yet utterly stupid) correlation that homosexuality = AIDS. About 5 years ago, when this group first started up there was a long and tedious debate based on the theory Homosexual + Dead = AIDS (I see nothing much has changed on that front). There were one or two people insistant that he did indeed die of AIDS, so someone in London went to the public records office, checked in the Registrar of Births, Deaths and Marriages, pulled out a copy of Graham Chapman's death certificate and posted it. (The point is, this comes from a valid source.) The primary cause of death was cancer of the larynx (throat) with secondary cancers elsewhere, including the liver. Cancer of the liver is quite common (and fatal) but it is usually a sign of cancer elsewhere, the liver gets affected only in the final stages. Liver failure will eventually kill you if pneumonia doesn't get you first. Death certificates in the UK are required by law to state both the primary and secondary causes of death - in the case of Graham, he died of pneumonia as a result of cancer of the larynx which had spread to many other sites, including the liver. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---9. Using FTP----------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This topic has been removed from the faq, and transfered to its own file, due to the excessive length. If you need general help as a first time FTP user. You can either post requests for help to the newsgroup, or ask me for the "ftphelp" file. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10. Terminology------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Some basic terms and their meanings commonly used in association with newsgroups in general, if you don't understand these, you won't ever figure out what people are talking about on the net. FTP: File Transfer Protocol (lets you connect to other computers on the internet for sending/retrieving files. See section #9.) FAQ: Frequently Asked Questions (See section #1.) Gopher: Another file transfer system somewhat similar to FTP. Unix \ Several different styles of VAX/VMS > operating systems/environments for the internet. X Windows / (sort of like DOS,Windows,OS/2,ect. for Ibm PCs) Telnet: Acts as an intermediary so that you can connect and login to a remote computer, across the hall or across the world. Finger: A feature on many internet operating systems that lets you find out information about any user on the internet. (Will display some of the following information about a person; their userid, their full name, whether they're logged on, when they last logged on, if they have unread mail, a phone number, an office location, ect.) Usenet: The term applies to the collection of newsgroups or discussion groups. Currently numbers over 5,000 different groups. Archie: A server you can connect to that will search ftp databases for a specific file name pattern and tell you what sites carry files that match the search pattern. RTFM: Read The F****** Manual. An FTP site (rtfm.mit.edu) which carries FAQs for many newsgroups that you can download and read. Flame: A post or email which is rude, cruel, nasty, or intentionally insulting. These are usually directed at the PERSON rather than their opinions, and are extremely childish. Its best to just ignore them. Another definition is: to speak incessantly and/or rabidly on some relatively uninteresting subject or with a patently ridiculous attitude. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ And now for something completely different..... Sir DarkWolf aka I didn't want to be a FAQ maintainer, I wanted to be...a Lumberjack! -- ********Grand Master of the Cavalry for a.f.m-p******** * Sir DarkWolf * The dirty grey knight * * drkwlf@wam.umd.edu * with blue speckles. * ************www.froth.com - Homebrewer's Heaven******** -- ********Grand Master of the Cavalry for a.f.m-p******** * Sir DarkWolf * The dirty grey knight * * drkwlf@wam.umd.edu * with blue speckles. * ************www.froth.com - Homebrewer's Heaven********